Potential IJF Rule Changes for 2013

I just received some information from EJU sources that I thought you would enjoy.  The IJF is reviewing the rules that will be in effect for the next four years.  Here are some of the ideas being considered.

Fixed Kumi Kata or maximum allowed time to get the grip

Matches would begin according to the rules that govern visually impaired athletes.  In other words, players would have to take a two-hand grip before hajime is announced.  The other option is to mandate a maximum time to get a grip.  We’ve already been through that option. Players had five seconds to get a grip or they would be penalized.  This died pretty quickly and hasn’t been enforced in years, so I see no reason to give referees yet another chore to keep track of and another opportunity to penalize players.  We have enough penalties already. So, it looks like our options are to leave the rule as is or start with fixed kumi kata.  Not sure which is the greater evil.

No more toketa for going out of bounds

Once a pin is called, going out of bounds will not stop the pin.  I like this idea.  As much as I hate penalties, I wish the IJF would penalize players from crawling out of bounds to prevent ne waza from occurring, like Monteiro did against Matsumoto at the 2010 World Championships.

Golden Score

The proposal is to allow Golden Score to go until one player scores, thus eliminating to some degree the referee, as no hantei would be necessary.  On the other hand, I’m sure that we’ll see more penalties assessed just to end matches.

Bear Hug

Would maintain the shido given for “grips used in wrestling,” such as the bear hug.  OK, that’s an easy one for me.  It’s stupid, silly, emasculating, and totally unnecessary.  Let players grip however they want as long as they are doing positive, attacking Judo.

Total prohibition of direct attacks below the waist

This one bothers me, period, but more so now that the implication is that leg attacks are no longer allowed.  I’m hoping that the wording should have said direct attacks with the hand below the waist.  So based on that assumption, my opinion is the same as for the bear hug. It’s stupid, silly, emasculating, and totally unnecessary.  I have heard through other sources that the IJF is considering eliminating the hansoku make associated with this penalty and awarding a shido instead.  That’s better, but it’s still stupid, silly, emasculating, and totally unnecessary.

Osae komi times

Osae komi times would go to 10, 15 and 20 seconds, which would correspond to the scores of yuko, waza ari and ippon.  As long as the rules are unfavorable to ne waza, players will continue to not favor ne waza training.  So it makes sense that fewer players are training to get out of pins.  Shortening the pin times doesn’t seem to penalize the player being pinned, since most can’t get out of pins, period.

Goodbye waza ari

Waza ari would be eliminated, leaving only yuko and ippon.  That was already being considered when they dropped koka a few years back.  Considering how often spectators are left asking, “How was that a waza ari?” or more importantly, “How was that an ippon?” this may be a good call, especially if we can get back to what an ippon used to be 35 years ago. On the other hand, what are the implications for pins?  No more waza ari awasete ippon? How many seconds for a yuko then?

Let’s hope that the IJF will recognize its past errors in judgment, and make Judo a better sport.  What do you think about the potential new rules?

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49 Responses to Potential IJF Rule Changes for 2013

  1. Aaron says:

    I really hope they drop the no bear hug and leg attack rules. Honestly, any rule that makes Judo less “manly”, as you said, should just be dropped and disregarded for future exemption.

    Judo needs to stay true to its spirit of a fighting sport that focuses on the best use of energy. Sometimes a bear hug or leg attack is the best use of energy.

  2. Steve Scott says:

    Wow…this is actually breathtaking. On a personal note, I remember when I started judo in 1965 that, at least here in the Kansas City area, our yudanshakai had a rule that both contestants must hold each other in kumi kata, and specifically, a kumi kata where the right hand had to be on the lapel and the left hand had to be on the sleeve. I remember a guy getting a penalty for trying to use a left-handed kumi kata. Like they say…the more things change, the more they stay the same. I know it sounds like a broken reconrd when I say it, but this shows why we are doing AAU Judo.

  3. Jim Bregman says:

    The more you change the rules, the sadder it gets. Every “fix” creates unintended consequences. They have over complicated a simple and very well understood set of rule covering maybe 12 pages in 1960 to 1964 to the point where you need to spend months and many hours just to ref a match with complex rules that even the IJF refs can’t agree on how to call. So, I don’t understand what the judoka is supposed to do with all of this non sense. Yes, I’m old fashioned and I love to compete. So, let the players compete. Enough is enough. WE trained as Martial Artist learning the Art of JUDO. Yes, it involved “fighting”! I’m sorry but I can’t even watch this “sport judo” with its constantly changing rules. You can’t fight on the ground anymore and soon you won’t be able to fight standing up! Ippon..Wazari and win or lose ……respect your opponent and go to the next match. Simplicity fosters technique..Complexity breeds “games”. I am appalled at what has happened to a great activity over the years.

  4. Gerald, I cannot fault you on anything you have said and I am in total sympathy with Jim Bregman, who came through the school of hard knocks. For Judo to be a true fighting sport it only requires rules to prevent injury. Keep it simple and let the best fighter win.

  5. Josh Henges says:

    I’m not saying this is what is going on, but it looks as if the rules changes are done out of the fear of wrestlers, and Brazilian Jiujitsu practitioners. The rule changes of a couple years ago and certainly these rule changes eliminates the strength of those two grappling arts. It makes judo look weak, and shows poor sportsmanship. Judo athletes must adapt to beat better grapplers, not simply change the rules. The better athletes are going to choose the sport with the rule set that allows them to show a breadth of skill, and judo isn’t doing that.

  6. Tom Crone says:

    If one watches the judo matches from the 1960′s and those of the current Olympics, it is clear that what Jim Bregman says is true. More (rules) is less. Far too many of the “new” rules that evolved were the result of tring to curtail devious gaming attempts by players and coaches; i.e. stepping out of bounds to get a break and catch ones breath, same objective for re-adjusting judogi without permission, pushing grips away and playing the infamous grip fighting games of grab-and-go, false attacks when ahead to stave off the other player’s attempts to score. These are the things that made the “new” rules, as they evolved, at first seem to make sense. Let’s not only critique the creators of the rules, but also the players and coaches who want to use the rules to gain the victory, rather than use judo to do so. I recall when Paul Maruyama used to begin each match with a shrill yell and a holding forth of both his lapels for the taking, as if to say, “Come get me!”. Now, that’s the spririt.

  7. Gerald Lafon says:

    The IJF often feeds us the fantasy that the International Olympic Committee (IOC) is breathing hard down Judo’s back to make sure that Judo does not look like wrestling. Having seen Olympic wrestling just a few months ago, I submit that the 2 sports have almost nothing in common, other than being pretty boring. We Americans have a different environment than the big wigs who dominate the IJF. Wrestling and BJJ don’t impact their societies like they do here in the U.S., so I doubt that their motives are to protect Judo from other arts. Like you, I believe we need to go back to our roots in order to be a more comprehensive art. Frankly, I’m at a loss as to why the IJF is doing what it is doing because it has nothing to do with receiving pressure from the IOC. Many of the banned techniques are dynamic and crowd pleasing. Having said that, there are other options than IJF Judo; one of which is Freestyle Judo.

  8. Norman Miller says:

    If IJF and IOC are concerned that judo resembles wrestling, they should remove judo fighting from the Olympics and replace it with the many katas of judo.

    Kata does not resemble judo and in fact includes some techniques that have been recently banned from Olympic competition.

    Those that view judo as a competitive combative sport that resembles wrestling could become involved in AAU Judo.

  9. Balaur Alexander says:

    The rule of Fixed Kumi Kata is crazy because there wouldn’t be more fight for grip. And the strongest one would get privilege. Elimination of waza ari would be also a bad decision. But I liked the rule of No Hantei, it’s realy good and will realy show who is better.

  10. Dave Schaeffer says:

    I was talking to my sensei Dan Alef the other day about the state of Judo. We recalled, when I started in 1997, pistol grips were just made illegal. Pin times changed from 30 to 25 seconds for ippon. But, thankfully for me, I could still use my good ol’ double leg takedowns. Sure worked good in the novice division, but not as much against black belts. These new rules make it that much harder to “try again” and get Judo going where I live. Without leg attacks, future high school wrestlers (and there parents) see no reason to cross train with Judo, when they can find a wrestling club. That’s where I’m at right now.

  11. Scott White says:

    Loved the article. I agree with you Dave. Our dojo has a thriving BJJ team and a really small Judo team. Its getting really hard to grow our judo team since wrestlers don’t want to compete in something that ignores all of their strengths, and our BJJ people get frustrated by the sheer number of rules in a Judo tournament. Even our straight Judoka would rather compete in a grappling/BJJ tourny where their nage waza can be put to more easily applied use.

  12. Nick says:

    “After a great deal of hard work, Jigoro Kano devised this technique [Kata Guruma] while he was still a young man studying at the Tenshin Shinyo Dojo. With him there was a certain Fukushima who was not only an advanced student but a large well-built man as well. It was a great source of displeasure to Kano that regardless of how hard he tried he could not beat this Fukushima. He worked day and night pouring over books on wrestling and sumo and finally came up with the kata guruma which one day enabled him to hurl mighty Fukushima to the floor.” Taken from Judo Info http://judoinfo.com/new/techniques/throwing-techniques/181-kata-guruma-shoulder-wheel-

    And now the usefulness of one of the most crucial throws in Judo has now been greatly diminished. What a sorry state of affairs.

  13. Mike says:

    I was a former HS wrestler who got into judo as a way to cross train for college football. Having Kata Garuma and other familiar wrestling holds to help me with my transition kept me training in judo. Slowly my technique improved and evolved but given my stocky stature, Kata Garuma remained a bedrock technique for me. Along with the growth of my technique, my love and respect for the art grew as well.

    When leg attacks were restricted, I tried to adapt but eventually got frustrated with having to totally reboot my hard work and decided to walk away instead. Sorry to see that judo is going even further to discourage crossover athletes.

    On a more practical level, as a self-defense art, judo desperately needs these leg attacks. If a judoka finds themselves in a real-life situation, you need to know how to use these techniques as well as defend against them should your attacker use them.

  14. Oliver Dunskus says:

    one rule i have been missing since years is to give points for throwing techniques where uke lands on his belly. i guess this might deserve a yuko as the technique has had a certain degree of success – taking uke off his feet.

    apart from that i believe that ne waza has almost nothing in common with tachi waza – other principles, other rules, other techniques, so why shouldn’t it be practised in different competitions – 2 separate disciplines?

  15. James Barringer says:

    Mr. Bregman: ‘Simplicity fosters technique..Complexity breeds “games”’. This is one of the best and truest maxims I have heard in many a year. Will be quoting it, and crediting you, for a long time.

    And yes, you are absolutely right about the needless complexity of the rules. One of the most brilliant things about judo is how by its very nature it represents Newton’s Third Law — for every action on the tatami, there is an equal and opposite reaction. And it is this that judoka strive to master. This incessant rule fiddling is disastrous. Let us hope that clearer heads prevail one day and we return to, as you say, the 12-page 1960′s rulebook, but I ain’t holding my breath, alas.

  16. Fred Weck says:

    Bring back Morote Gari, Te Guruma, “bear hugs”, and Kata Guruma! I felt they were always good legitimate “fighting” techniques that still fit the spirit of good Judo (i.e., not involving punching/kicking but could still help you out in a real fight).

    I have not been involved in Judo nearly as long as our friend Mr. Bregman (read his comment here) but it sounds like the IJF, over time, has tried to fix something that wasn’t very broke to begin with.

    If the IJF was worried about Judo looking too much like wrestling (my own first combat sport), I say nothing to worry about if you look at how badly FILA (the world governing body for freestyle and greco-roman) has screwed up another genuinely great sport with rule changes that boggle the mind over the past 20 years or so….but I will not pontificate further on that now.

    (Hi Coach, again my daughters and I are the family from New Jersey that you kinkly hosted at your club back in July while we were visiting family in SD. Hope to catch up with you again soon)

  17. Stan says:

    If these new rules are adopted I trust it won’t take the IJF 9 years to update their rules on their web site.
    Yes it has taken them nine long years to get them up to date, that is not good enough!

  18. Leonnardo Medeiros says:

    I think Judo rules are going in the wrong way. There are many techniques catching legs in Judo. Just check the Gokyo, are there! Is it not Judo? I am a Brazilian with 12 years of black belt in Judo and 4 years Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, and sometimes I think they are afraid of BJJ techniques. There are no Ne-waza? Guys, BJJ come from Judo, with our techniques. Let’s fight standing and on the ground!!!

  19. Robert says:

    I have participated in Judo both as a fighter and now as a coach since 1979. I am disappointed in the way Judo has evolved. I feel the rules have been changed to make it easier for those that can not master the techniques. Look at the older videos of Kano, Mifune, and any of the older Masters, I do not see any soft Ippon(s) called; there was no such thing as a rolling Ippon. Instead of changing the rules how about teaching the Refs to enforce the rules the way they were originally created. If a person crawls or purposely steps out of bounds, penalize them. If they are not advancing in ne waza stand them up( eliminates Bjj players). If they want to go for a double leg take-down let them but make sure they have good technique instead of tackling them ( penalize them for false attack if they have poor techniques)( eliminates the wrestlers). Go back to no grip fighting, penalize them for stalling if the do. The art of Judo has been lost I think Kano is turning in his grave for the lack of respect the sport has done to his art>

  20. Gerald Lafon says:

    On the other hand, let’s also remember that like everything else in the world, Judo has evolved into a fighting art that Kano would not necessarily recognize. Judo is more physical, more dynamic, more creative than it was just 50 years ago. Go back and watch some of the film from the 50s and early 60s to see what I mean. The bottom line is that the IJF is trying to legislate what Judo should look like for aesthetic reasons only. Gone is one of Kano’s three main reasons for Judo: self-defense. What self-defense values do we bring to the table when legs can’t be attacked, many grips are not allowed, a dozen techniques are banned, and ne waza is an afterthought?

  21. Gerald Lafon says:

    Good to hear from you Fred. You are right about FILA screwing up its sports. I tried watching London Olympic wrestling, but was bored to death, much like I am when I watch Judo. I just came back from Japan where I attended the Tokyo Grand Slam. That was probably my last Grand Slam event. Not much Judo to watch. So yes, let’s bring back the dynamic throws that the IJF has banned. Freestyle Judo is doing just that. Help us spread the word that the IJF model of Judo isn’t the only game in town.

  22. Peter Fortune says:

    I support the International Judo Federation and their decisions. The changes simply impact the effectiveness of ones judo. The rule change will strengthen the judo of strong judoka and weaken the judo of weak judoka. Complaints and support of the rule change are a reflection of the quality of judo that is practiced.

    After the recent change proposal, elite judoka did not spend days and weeks dragging their heels and lamenting about days gone. Instead, they immediately began training for the new format. The change brings possibility for all players. Some will immerge as new champions while other must take time to re-tooling and increase the effectiveness of their judo.

    The IJF brings brilliance to the brilliant game of judo. I appreciate the rule changes since the 2008 games in Sydney, and I look forward to the additional positive improvements to judo that will result from the 2013-2016 and following 2017-2020 rule changes.

  23. Gerald Lafon says:

    Peter, I’ll lead off by asking you how in the world does the IJF bring brilliance to the game of Judo when it bans so many techniques and limits how you can grip your opponent? I don’t call that brilliance at all. I call that the emasculation of what was once an awesome fighting art.

    I just got back from watching the Tokyo Grand Slam and to be honest with you I saw no brilliance. I saw timidity, reluctance to attack, missed attacking opportunities for fear of making the wrong hand attack to the legs…and not a lot of high amplitude, dynamic Judo throws like when players could do Te guruma. Instead we have this rash of low amplitude garbage- even heavyweights are resorting to this type of Judo- to minimize risk and stop from being penalized. Sorry, no brilliance there.

    The positive changes that you speak of have pretty much caused the death of adult Judo in the U.S. Makes more sense for fighters to do MMA, Brazilian Jiujitsu and submission wrestling, sports that allow you more freedom to use a larger array of fighting skills.

    Of all the people I talk with and who read my blog, you are the only one so far who has shown such vehement support for these changes to Judo. What is your Judo background? Are you an IJF member?

  24. rich says:

    I was at my judo club in NJ last night and they were doing randori and it ws disheartining. Even in play one of the two blackbelts came of a bit timid as soon as his natural raction to grab the leg as a counter. He would grimace and say “hansokumake”.
    I could go on adnaseum and lament of these new restrictive rules, but some of the other organizations(IJF affiliated) should stand up and protest. Its time for regime change at the IJF referee committee. Nevertheless something has to change.

  25. Peter Fortune says:

    Gerald. Did you get me response? If not, I’ve attached it again.

    Yes, I object. The glass is not half empty. It is half full. What can be done within a judo contest? The question is not “what cannot be done”, but what can be done. The rule change simplifies judo back to the foundation; to a simpler form of judo.

    But to many, the judo that was once familiar has now changed to something strange. Being hurt or angered by this is a normal reaction. Judo was once a sport of advance gripping and modified attacks. It was a sport where practicing simple, basic judo could be overlooked. It was a sport where tactics changed from the beginning and intermediate levels to that of the advance and elite levels. The judo of today is none of the above. Judo is now uniform. Today, a player will be taught to throw for ippon as a white belt. That same player will also throw for ippon at the elite level.

    Even in its simple form, judo is complex, challenging, and difficult to master. The majority of us are average, simple people. Judo is now a game with the potential to be practiced by more people. With more practitioners, there can be more and better champions winning with cleaner judo and more greatness will be produced through the sport.

    Peter Fortune
    Sacramento State Judo Club
    San Joaquin Valley Judo Association Yudanshakai

  26. Saulius says:

    I have been away from Judo for 15 years and I am very unhappy with the new rules. I think Judo is becoming less and less effective for self defence. Newaza is disappearing from Judo. It feels as though we were challenged by BJJ and instead of rising to the challenge we gave up. But at least we are the best at take downs and throws right? If we eliminate leg grabs then wrestlers will eat us for breakfast. So what are we good at? As far as I can see judoka are only good at throwing upright opponents who are wearing a gi and are banned from attacking the legs. Thats not much if you ask me. I just started my young children in Judo lessons and I am already wondering if I should switch them to something more practical.

  27. Gerald Lafon says:

    Yes, I received it the first time. I’ve been pondering how to respond to this. I’m almost speechless. How far back does your Judo go? Judo used to look like chess. Look at the Geesink video at the 61 Worlds. Looks like he and opponent are green belts. Now it’s speed chess on steroids with many more technical elements to contend with, not to mention physical demands…and far too many no-nos to deal with. I can’t fathom how eliminating over a dozen throws and counters makes Judo greater. And still it does nothing for Judo as a self-defense mechanism.

  28. Gerald Lafon says:

    I agree 100%, except for wondering if you should switch your children to something else. Don’t deprive them of Judo because the IJF has deprived us of much of our core strengths. Talk to the coach of your club to see if he’ll stick with real Judo. Start your own club if you need to, but don’t abandon the Judo most of us wish for.

    P.S. Where are you located? What club are you kids currently attending?

  29. Peter Fortune says:

    I was raised on American judo (1983-1995). I achieved shodan then quit. It was frustrating to be a black belt in judo but unable to execute an beautiful ippon throw. I threw for koka and then pinned them, winning mostly.

    For the past four year I’ve practiced a more traditional judo. How do I describe it… Japanese judo, kodokan judo, Kano judo. Another reason of why I am in favor of the rule change… the new format favors me and my judo. Yes, I am big, strong, and I still win mostly. However, I now gage performance on efficiency and asthetics.

    With time, work, and example the new format can favor us all. It is a decision. To stand firm and rigid or to bend, flow, and throw.

  30. I am responding to the comment that “Judo is now a game with the potential to be practiced by more people.”
    In the United States, nothing could be further from the truth. There has been a fundamental shift in the philosophy of martial artists in that they have given up practicing only a single style in favor of integrating multiple disciplines. This philosophy was originally advocated by Bruce Lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpFSwQztptQ
    Lee was known for his legendary fight scenes and his underlying philosphy was not fully appreciated. Today, martial arts consumers are much better informed and they are looking to fuse together striking, takedowns and ground fighting for self defense, sport, etc. If you believe that this is the new paradigm as I do, than any martial art that isolates itself through artificial rule sets will become less popular. But there will still be a need for throws and takedowns. Instead of seeing judo grow, other martial arts such as sombo will become “go to” sports. Given the success of Brazilian jiu jitsu (which was created partly due to restrictive judo rules), I am not sure why this is not more obvious.

  31. Gerald Lafon says:

    My concerns are for the survival of the sport, not whether the rules benefit my fighting skills and abilities.

  32. Gerald Lafon says:

    Shift, yes, but not everyone wants to mix it up. MMA is really nothing more than physical fitness and a different workout for 99% of the wannabe population. Aikido is still very popular in the States although most people would not lump it in the martial arts category. And BJJ is still BJJ, a ground grappling system… which is so much easier on the body that taking falls. Yes, Judo can remain relevant in the martial arts community provided it casts away the restrictions that have emasculated it. That’s something easy to do at the dojo level. Coaches need to take a stand and say enough is enough. Then they need to embrace Freestyle Judo rules or something similar. The solution to our predicament is not that difficult. What’s lacking in Judo is the courage to part from the IJF.

  33. Mike says:

    My daughter competes in judo, bjj and wrestling. When I go to the tournaments I see more judo throws in wrestling and bjj than judo. She loves judo but feels that it is a waste of her time to train according to IJF rules. She only goes to judo once a week now because it’s the only night she doesn’t have bjj or wrestling. If freestyle judo gains popularity I’m sure she will be interested in competing in those tournaments. This is too bad, because she is very good at judo and has won national/international judo tournaments.

  34. Daniel Jr says:

    Why is the hell do I see Judo being referred to as a “sport”??? Just like traditional Jujitsu and BJJ, Judo should be referred to as Martial Arts! I’ve been in Judo since I was 2 years old and started competing when I was 5. If it wasn’t for AAU Judo, I probably wouldn’t compete anymore. My father who has been training in Judo for over 30 years has been disqualified in two different tournaments! This is sad I believe, that when a man gives that much of his life to to the martial art and gets dq’d for touching his opponents leg! My fellow Judoka keep trying to push me into regular IJF tournaments, since I started to get avoid them. The thing I keep saying to them is” Why would I be compete? I don’t don’t enjoy it anymore? “. Just like throwing someone to their butt and then they roll their back being an Ippon, I don’t see these rules helping Judo.

  35. Gerald Lafon says:

    “Sport” or “martial art?” This is an ongoing battle to define what and who we are. We can be both. We can be a sport to fulfill one of Kano’s three objectives: Judo as a means of physical education. We can also fulfill a second objective of his: Judo as a form of self-defense.

  36. daniel r hoffman says:

    hi dan sr.againg and still dont spell no better its hard to keep up with all the rule changes and dont know if i want to 38 years of try to paly judo and 27 years of being a sensie (not a coach) coaches dont wear rank i am now 4 generations deep in judo now my grand son has just started his journey i can not bring him up through ijf rules thank god for aau or would have to do some other martial art with the rules ijf keep making i dont know how they can call what they do as judo and give out ranks j kano i though delvoped judo so we could test are skills in compition to see how are martial art skills were progersing so we could inprove are selfs and have honor in ourselfs and yes things to have to be safe but touching some ones leg i dont think is a safty problem when i began judo in 1974 and my dad was my sensei i cry to him they keep grabbing my legs ang throwing me so we learned to stop them not change the rules it is like every thing eles thes day if you dont like it find a easyer way instad go to the dogo one exta night and work out harder the martial art part of judo is in the dogo the sport part is when you go to shiai and see what you have lernt and can get up and go to work the net day so they can one and the same ijf is not allowing us to do this any more so againg thank god for aau keep judo alive with hard work and aau

  37. Rich Garvin says:

    Was at a judo tournament yesterday and don’t recall a lesser attended shiai. Was at a bjj tournament a couple of months ago and had to search for a parking spot that wasn’t way down the street.
    There was much talk of the “new rules” for 2013 at this tournament. There was also much talk of class attendance (or lack thereof) and the correlation to the seemingly continual introduction of rules to “improve” judo.
    I guess I could diatribe on about the old days when judo took on all comers, when judo beat jui jutsu back in Kano’s days, when Kamura traveled all the way to Brazil to test judo’s efficacy against bjj’s best, when Gene Labele took on a much younger boxer, when Yoshida triumphed over MMA legend Royce Gracie on his own turf, etc. etc. etc. -
    However, I think it will suffice to say that starting with tonight’s practice, we will be learning more bjj techniques and rules than judo’s.

  38. daniel r hoffman says:

    keep comming to aau judo tournaments when you can find them. I think you will find that you will like them better more groud work & less peneltys more groud time at the tournament. I was at the mn. usja tournmant saturday the 19 they stop about 15 chocks i dont belive the refs even gave then 3 sec. to apply them. When we put an auu shiai on we let them go as long as there is forwar progress some times 20 to 30 sec. they dont get a way with hiding till it is stoped and they dont get a way with soft ippions no rolling ippions its had to put on a good usja or ji tournament when you have to use ijf rulls. To keep peace in the east side judo clubs we do put on 2 usja tourmants and 2 aau tournaments goin for three this year next aau mn stat shiai is in april hope to have third one in the begaining of aug. norm miller will be putting on aau natioals in late aug keep playing aau judo and have fun

  39. Yvan says:

    Rich, you care because BJJ interests you. And your tournament anecdote I can counter with the fact that where I live the 3 U-11-13-15 I went to see were packed to the rafters.
    My sister lives in Montreal, Canada and her son’s club now went from 260 to almost 500 members in about 4-5 years. They had 50 U-5-6 beginners this year.
    And I work in France and Switzerland haf the year and see no signs of less people at youth tournaments or at big ones like Bercy.

    At our club, class attendance has nothing to do with rules. You lose youth players just like you do soccer in the early teenage years and not everyone competes so those people are not affected.

    People do judo beacuse they like it, not because some guy 50 yrs ago fought some other guy.
    5-6 yrs ago most judokas had never heard of Kimura but the Gracie hype machine has given him more visibility that he ever had in his life. For people like you, he matters because he fought Helio. This has NOTHING to do with what we teach at our club, it has zero bearing on it.

    To you it does so therefore you think its the same for all.

    I am not a fan of all rule changes but our competitors have adapted and the ones that dont still get to practice illegal moves in competition. Life hasnt stopped moving for the young.
    For the old, its new and not what they are used to.
    Its called life.
    Talk to me about the crappy state of music and I will mimic your opinion perfectly.
    Some things were care more, some things annoy some people more.

    Like Rhadi says, its my job to take the new rules and make my competitors better under them.
    It in NO WAY stops me from teaching traditional judo.

    And I say that as someone who wishes that the 1984 judo was back.

  40. Gerald Lafon says:

    Yvan, rule changes affect different people differently. I’m guessing you are not based in the U.S. Because we have a plethora of grappling arts readily available to Americans in every community, people have a vote in what art they want to do. More and more are walking away from Judo specifically because of the restrictive rules. This may not be true in Europe, but it is true in the U.S. Since you bring Rhadi’s name into this discussion, please note that he is having a hard time finding Judo people to train. This is why he had to branch off. So while his job is to take the rules and make players better, at some point you run out of raw material because you refused to safeguard the viability of the sport.

  41. Rich Garvin says:

    Yvan, your first accusation makes no sense. If you mean to imply that my admonishment of judo’s new rules is motivated by an interest in bjj, then you are 100% wrong. Actually, a more descript way of saying it would be that you are 180 degrees wrong. (i.e. my interest in bjj is motivated by the counterproductive rules that judo’s “powers that be” have enacted)
    If you like the new rules and they work for you and your club, then bully for you and by all means continue. I, on the other hand, am a more traditional judoka. These “new rules” represent a significant enough departure from traditional judo to warrant a distinction. Maybe you can call it “New Judo.” That sounds good, as it would save time in the identity of ones discipline, rather than waiting around for all these “new judoka” to be choked out or witness them being thrown through the air with their lack of ability to defend against such archaic techniques as kata garuma, te garuma etc. etc. etc. during randori.
    I will continue to practice, teach and advocate judo. That would be THE judo, where leg grabs and ne waza are encouraged, where how many hands I use to break my opponents grip is not an issue, where I can shake an opponents hand at the start of a match if we so choose. At the moment, it seems that bjj tournament rules are more akin to improving one’s judo than the actual sanctioned new judo shiais. Kind of ironic, to be sure, but non the less true. Us traditionalists should feel grateful that judo was imparted to the Brazilians in the 1950′s, for I fear that this “new judo” of yours will one day merge with aikido or hapkido or some other obscure dance and lose it’s identity all together.

  42. Old school judo says:

    I’m tired of people who don’t have to wash their gi, making rules for people who train, teach, and sweat. Could any of them face jigoro Kano and justify any of this new junk. I lost kanibasami years ago, then uchi mata tsukashi, now sukui nage ( aka te guruma). They are castrating and sterilizing the game. Are they trying to improve judo for the players, or is someone making money out of this agenda. If the people who made these rules had to compete with them, perhaps they would see how little common sense exists.

  43. Anon says:

    I agree with nearly every post here. On the one hand, yes the rule changes are a difficult thing to stomach, and they are frustrating for coaches and competitors alike, however i will also echo the sentiments of those of you saying that we simply have to face up to the changes and continue teaching, and training, and embrace them; as much as we may not want to.

    In response to ‘old school judoka’: there is nothing wrong with uchi mata sukashi. It always has been, and still is, a valid technique!

  44. Old school judo says:

    That’s cool, but my tsukashi also scoops with left hand as well…sort of a sukui nage while side stepping the right uchimata. But I’ll take the hansoku and throw the guy. I don’t need more points or rank…just the satisfaction of throwing a guy half my age ;)

  45. Old school judo says:

    I visited a prominent gi manufacturer in Japan last month….hmmm, I wonder how much the gi factories have to pay the ijf for each patch sewn on every gi they sell….gotta ask my lawyer friends what this is technically called. It’s business when players have a choice, must research more….
    Ooops, I should’ve spelled sukashi for sukasu…no t….

  46. I am on the same page above. I learned Judo at Nagoya U., so have always had a preference for newaza and never was fully comfortable with international rules. (Kinda like the new AAU rules, we allowed kanibasami but also hiki komi.)

    Anyway, I am back in Tokyo now and my son is training judo and BJJ, and it has been interesting to see how frustrated the Japanese are with international judo. Although the rules favor ‘pure judo’, the notion of all these rules bugs them and the new gripping rules are very unpopular here.

    I think the problem is that the Olympic Sporting Committees take on a life of their own. They aren’t really accountable to anyone and you end up with a few so-called big shots imposing their own narrow view on the athlete base without any real pressure to make sure the changes are popular world wide or are going to help grow the sport.

    As a business, Judo is run like a non-profit. I don’t see how making Judo’s rules more complicated contributes to audience satisfaction. It is not going to produce the ‘spectacular wins’ it is supposed to produce. Just more victories by hantei and shido, which leaves most people baffled and unimpressed

  47. Gerald Lafon says:

    My Japanese colleague in Yamagata mentioned that they are bewildered by the new rules. I was impressed by his use of the word “bewildered.” So they must really be unhappy. Sadly, they won’t do anything about it. Would like to see them run a campaign against the IJF. The IJF buys off countries with gis and mats. Would love to see the All Japan Judo Federation run interference with Vizer’s bribery.

  48. Old school judo says:

    When I randori with my peers, I occasionally declare “1882″ rules” anything goes except elbowing, eye pokes and kicks to the groin…much more fun with kanibasami, and sukui nage body slams. Masters tournaments should all be exempt from bogus rules…just use wazaari, ippon.

  49. Old school judo says:

    I recently was informed by my sensei that my next Dan was submitted to the usj* …they charge almost 200 dollars…if he didn’t submit any fees yet, I might respectfully decline…the usj* needs my money more than I need a piece of paper…kinda like junk bonds…I’d rather buy a custom kusakura gi or good sake ;) I can’t support organizations under the web of international rule makers…restore 1882 rules, with common sense safety rules.

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